Beiträge von craig gertenbach/Fanatic

Zitat von manihiki

Hallo Craig,

was mit Fanatic gemacht wird und schon vorher mit Mistral ist so als wenn z.B.

Ferrari und Porsche sagen, ok wir nennen uns jetzt Kukitone und Oralduo und Ferrari und Porsche nehmen wir jetzt für unsere Krankenfahrstühle.

Das ist kein Bashing sondern Kritik.

Grüße 😀

Alles anzeigen

Kritik gerne, should just be on a respectful level, I do not see that in a few comments and it is hard to not take it personally after 28yrs guiding the brand through some very tough times. Again, we don't expect everyone to feel the same as us, or those who actually understand the complete decision. Time will tell if it was the right one, there is no disrespect to end-users/faithful customers, they are still able to get the same great products. Your example above does not really make sense, the Premium leading Sail, Wing and Kite brand in our sports have a great image, even if you do not like the name....

Since my German is apparently not good enough for certain experts here, I'll have to revert to English (sorry, slow learner and more focussed on building the Fanatic brand in the last 28yrs, plus raising a family and having some fun on the water) - it seems that some people are simply not willing to accept the decision, regardless of the facts or explanation. It is refreshing to read some of the sensible comments, from people who can see the bigger picture and perhaps have some business sense. The decision was not taken easily, it will take some time for people to get over it. Then they can decide if they want to buy a Duotone Grip, from the same shaper, factory, company, product manager, service etc.

I can tell you that at various meetings where we showed the new boards, that many of our key dealers, customers or even team riders, who did not know about the change, did not even notice the logo difference, until we pointed it out. Means we have stayed very true to the design language and spirit of Fanatic. Again, almost all the same people are involved (I will have a new role in Wingfoiling division as per the news release) - by the way, the full interview is now online, before there were just some highlights - https://www.duotonesports.com/…racing-the-power-of-unity

The article was written by an ex Surf Magazine Editor, avid windsurfer/kiter/winger - and done without any marketing praktikants....I know forums are the place to express whatever opinion you have- but the level of disrespect in this forum is mind blowing sometimes, I bet not even 1% of people writing stuff here would ever dare to say it to someones face, but keyboard warriors full time? come on guys, get out on the water more, it will help....

Overall it's a sad day for Fanatic, but like any change (which everyone hates), it always brings opportunity - if I had not been willing to change, then I would still be sitting in South Africa thinking I was a great National Windsurfing Champion - instead of which I travelled the world, ended up living all over Europe and running a great brand with amazing support from a load of different people - I'm willing to change, no-one had more invested in Fanatic than me - so please keep it in perspective, no matter what you think of B&M - by far the most successful watersports company in the market - and only because of the passionate people who work there, just like any micro brand.

Keep on bashing, or keep on sailing, your choice....I know which I prefer.

oops, natürlich "unsere Marketing Manager Karin, der auch meine Frau ist....Dani habe ich natürlich auch lieb...

Hallo zusammen,

Es ist immer interessant, hier die verschiedenen Perspektiven und Theorien zu lesen. Ich kann euch versichern, dass es am 4.9.23 eine sehr klare Erklärung geben wird, nicht irgendwelche Marketingtexte. Ich arbeite seit 28 Jahren für Fanatic, zusammen mit unserem Shaper Sebastian Wenzel, sowie vielen anderen langjährigen Mitarbeitern wie Klaas Voget, Daniel Aeberli, unserem Marketing Manager, der auch meine Frau ist - niemand ist von dieser Veränderung mehr betroffen als wir, die wir fast 30 Jahre unseres Lebens damit verbracht haben, Fanatic zur bestmöglichen Marke zu machen.

Es gibt viele hunderttausend Boards mit dem Namen Fanatic auf dem Markt, über 42 Jahre unglaubliche Geschichte, ich denke, das spricht für sich selbst über den Namen selbst - ich persönlich werde ein Fanatic für Wassersport bleiben, zusammen mit vielen anderen Menschen.

Geduld, Neuigkeiten am 4.9.23, ab aufs Wasser....

nennt sich PATENT......:-) = Duotone Echo/Gabel..

Gabel ist für windsurfer sehr natürlich zum fahren, Handles eh gewöhnungsbedürftig, geht aber natürlich auch....hat Duotone auch mit Unit....

sorry, aber "patience" bitte...ich darf nicht posten...

Hi Stefan,

Verstehe ich nicht ganz - BDS, Surf Umfrage und Cobra statement (produziert 95% von alle windsurfing boards weltweit?) - das sind Fakten...aber passt schon... wie gesagt, nicht so wichtig wer grosser ist, viel wichtiger ist ein positives attitude zu Windsurfen, das haben mittlerweile fast alle Mitbewerber und alle geben sich muhe unsere schöne Sport zu pushen.

Mias, vielen dank, ich habe relativ viel Geduld mit zwei teenager zuhause, aber wenn 5, 10 oder 15 mal das gleiche %&$ erzählt wird, dann muss ich was sagen.....

Walchensee, ja testen/Betriebsausflug super wie immer...nur am Strand extreme voll!

PS - wollte auch noch sagen, Nr 1, 2, 3, eigentlich relativ egal, wir sind seit fast 40 Jahren eine Top Marke in WS Geschäft, fur uns geht's viel mehr darum schöne Bretter zu bauen, um so viele Leute aufs Wasser zu bringen wie möglich - und dabei selber ein bissl Spass an Job zu haben... it ain't rocket science...

ich probiere das nochmal hier nach ein paar Jahren Pause, (diesmal mit mein schlechte Deutsch, sorry in advance!). Paar Fakten statt Guesswork:

Fanatic ist seit über zehn Jahren Marktführer in Deutschland, laut BDS zahlen. Nr 1 längere Zeit bei der surf Magazin Leserumfrage. Weltweit Nr. 1 seit über 5 Jahren, laut Cobra und unserer Konkurrenz, die auch sehr gute Produkte bauen. Duotone/NS seit vielen Jahren schon weltweit Marktführer obwohl Severne auch sehr stark gewachsen sind, Ben ist ein sehr guter Designer und cooler Typ, genau wie Svein, Roberto R usw. Wir haben alle sehr viel Respekt füreinander, nicht nur auf dem Board.

Wir haben mehrere tausend Stubby, FreeWave STB and Blasts (geht ins 5te Jahr/unverändert) verkauft - das soll ein Flop sein...ok....?

Marketing blahblah? Ganz normales Interview mit Fakten? Aber hier in Forum sind "Alternative Fakten" schon sehr beliebt

Viel Spass noch, und wenn jemand sich wirklich interessiert für Fanatic Produkte, dann sind wir jederzeit auf unserem Forum erreichbar.

Heute Walchensee, nächste Woche Gardasee - geht aufs Wasser - macht Spaß!

Totti the answer is from the PWA, which as you know is run by the seven people you have accused of all types of behaviour. Above you have a clear list of what has transpired, the only missing part is why Patrik refuses thus far to simply register his accessories, which are now then legal instead of illegal.(once he registers) I note as always that you refuse to comment on facts such as that the management board was never aware of which brand was affected, although you claim otherwise. And many other issues where the above explanation clearly shows your arguments to be anything but factual.

Is this forum just a personal mouthpiece for you and your Patrik distribution? there seems to be no attempt at balancing viewpoints and that you are obviously biased is very plain to see. Therefore this will be my last comment here on the forum, as I simply see no chance for any reasonable arguments to presented and discussed, that is actually your job Totti. But don´t worry, I will follow all your comments and other users threads as regularly as before, to gain knowledge about customers, their needs and impressions, as I do on other forums. I wish everyone luck here and most of all, try to get out on the water more, cheers, craig, ps thanks for putting up with the English, it is appreciated!

then why don´t you point out specifically what exactly is incorrect in my list of points above, then you can help me to understand what exactly I am trying to hide? Facts, not general statements...by the way, my idea of responsible journalism is a well researched article, factually checked and where both sides are given a chance to respond BEFORE going public....this has not happened on this thread or many others on this forum either.

then why don´t you point out specifically what exactly is incorrect in my list of points above, then you can help me to understand what exactly I am trying to hide? Facts, not general statements...

Totti, do you mean at the meeting where we use the secret handshake and special hoods to hide our identity and plot to destroy the smaller brands? what kind of reality do you live in? why don´t we just stick to the facts, I´ll just revise them again, to the best of my knowledge, I´m sure Patrik or you will correct me if wrong:

1. RIDERS on the PWA Tour complained apparently during the 2015 season that a Patrik rider was using cutout blocks that were not provided with the boards, they requested that this not be allowed in future, as it provides an unfair advantage etc.
2. The PWA Tour Manager alerted Patrik, who discussed with him and Jimmy Diaz about these changes, at no time was any industry member involved in the discussion. Patrik provided me that information yesterday. That was in August/September. Patrik´s opinion as far as I can see was that the blocks/cutout system is the same as a fin, is not an integral part of the board design and there does not need to be specified. The PWA Tour Manager/Jimmy Diaz did not agree and told him he would have to specify it, like other brands? No answer came here I believe then from Patrik on how best to resolve that, as he did not agree to the subject (here I have to say I am not 100% sure as I was not in the communcation at all and am still waiting for an answer from Jimmy/our Tour manager)
3. Then there is a large time gap where it appears there was no communication on the topic, until the final rule came out, on Dec 15th. At the time of voting on the subject, I´m afraid to tell you that we had no info that this topic was an issue for Patrik, whatsoever - so your theories about us specially trying to hinder Patrik´s system are without any basis whatsoever. Patrik was informed about the need to specify the plates already in his discussions in August/Sept as far as I can see from the email he provided me, so the "2 hrs before registration" claim does not seem to be correct, however again all of this has taken place since Saturday, I am waiting to hear back from our Tour Manager to be 100% sure.
4. Registration date was 15.12. Since that date there has been no request from Patrik to review the ruling to accommodate him or the issue he has? why has it taken him nearly a month to approach the subject/why did he not attempt to inform the MB that he had a problem with the system? Yes, he has discussed it in August/September, but has not given any counter proposal as far as I know, therefore the MB proceeded to vote on the subject.
5. Within hrs of seeing this post on the forum, I have written countless comments here to try and explain the situation, mails to Patrik and the PWA to try and resolve this issue. The fact that we were not aware of the impact it has on his registration shows a weakness in the communication gap, however is very far away from any conspiracy or deliberate attempt by brands to take advantage of Patrik or any other brand. Again, do you want to resolve the issue or not? Or just create free publicity here on the forum? Actually Bouke he had more than enough options to approach all MB members, instead of insulting and accusing them on an open forum. And the door is still open here, strangely Patrik does not want to approach it so far, but let´s see if he does.

The repeated attempts to paint this story as a deliberate attempt at taking advantage of a smaller brand are baseless, factually incorrect and just inciting the usual nonsense about the PWA. I have to wonder about the intentions of the admin on this forum, are you acting responsibly with your provocative accusations?

the question still remains, why has Patrik not asked for a special change to the rule, if it affects him adversely? this is the same question I asked him but still no clear answer? As mentioned many times above already, this whole issue could be solved quite simply without the drama...look forward to his official request to the PWA to adapt the rules to accommodate him, as the only brand who has a problem with it so far.

Another great day of racing here in Langebaan, unfortunately we had light winds and the kite-foiler beat us in 4 of 4 races.....

so just a short update here - as of yet, I can confirm on information from the PWA Tour Manager, that Patrik has not contacted the PWA to ask about the amendments, protest it or even mention that he is unhappy with it? Seems quite strange to post something like this without actually talking to the PWA beforehand, given that he is both a partner brand and a competitor. Hopefully we´ll here from him soon then.

Terence, please stick to the context - the only reason I mentioned Fanatic´s success, is that we do not see Patrik as a major threat to us, with or without cutouts, blocks. therefore also no "Abgesprochenes Spiel", which as you see is the title of the thread and the basis of the whole issue, that the PWA management board brands tried to gain advantage over another member. We see Patrik as a competitor of course, who makes very solid good products, is passionate and dedicated. However sometimes a little too fast with claims against the bigger brands.

My comment as the importance of the amendments, which you again take out of context, is to emphasise that we did not envision such a problem, nor did I personally realise we were limiting his design - again once more, the door is always open for discussion on it, as of yet, I have not heard from him, but welcome feedback as part of my job on the PWA.

My opinions on Patrik and Totti are based on many discussions with them, you as faithful Patrik customers have a different opinion, fine for me.

Again, I thought this was a windsurfing forum, so presumed readers are stoked to hear about windsurfing sessions, today was a particularly interesting day as we had the South African National slalom championships, in very demanding conditions, won by Vincent Langer on a 7.2 sail. There were gusts of up to 50knots on the course. We were worried yesterday after training that the foil kiter who joined the event would be faster, but today was just too windy for him, but he was close. So we´ll see if Vincent can continue to keep the windsurfers honour intact, I have never seen such a performance on a kite foil in such strong winds. And on that positive note I will take myself off to rest for tomorrow´s racing!

sorry for sharing my surf day, it will not happen again, just enthusiastic after being with passionate people who care about windsurfing..:-)

No, actually, the decision was not too short-lived, you are working on presumptions again, the main problem is it appears Patrik is not happy with the rule, however he has not addressed the management board with a counter proposal to solve the issue? How can you compare FIFA to the PWA? there are 4 active members of the PWA world tour having the majority vote, so a 100% rider driven organisation? The Chairman is Jimmy Diaz with over 20yrs on the PWA and still active?

Again, more info to follow when it is available, I presume we´ll have news asap.

Das Argument, dass man Craig seinen Klasse Surftag nicht vermasseln sollte ist schon berechtigt, denke ich.

:-)) actually it was hell, but a good group of passionate windsurfers made it worth it.

since you do not sign your mail it´s hard for me to address it to someone - but ok, t36 - as I already mentioned, the ammendments to the accessories on the boards was not a major issue, and I personally was not aware that it would have a negative impact on PD´s shapes, for the main reason that I am not occupying my ltd time checking his cutout plates etc. However now it does appear to be an issue, so why does Patrik simply not request that we allow it/as far as I know this had not been done, then we can resolve it - again, I have not seen any request, what is so hard to understand about that? If there is a problem, we have simple processes and systems to address them, same way as we do for all other rules. I for one do not see any need to ban plates, which by the way is not the actual problem here I believe, it is a question of modification, but again, this was hardly a major topic for us at the PWA, which is very much a part time voluntary job. And could have been addressed, without going onto a public forum with wild and false accusations.

If the slalom committee, made up of only PWA riders with zero industry influence, has requested these amendments, then it is a different story, but here I am not aware that any sailor tried to ban the plates, as suggested above. As mentioned, I have requested additional info from both the PWA and Patrik himself and will certainly do my part to resolve the issue as best as possible, without all info on hand right now in this second, I cannot comment further on what has/has not been discussed with Patrik and the PWA. I will come back with more updates once I have them, I like to base my statements on facts, not rumours/theories. You say our integrity has been questioned, indeed it has, I wonder what will happen when I prove it is solid.....will we see a public apology from Totti or Patrik? I doubt it very much. But let´s wait and see what the facts are.