I have no experience with Gun Sails.
But when comparing Loft Switchblade with Loft Oxygen or Neilpryde V8 with Neilpryde Speedster:
All my best fins have some signs of use, often scratches at the fin tip. My favorite carbon fin (for a couple of years) lost in the second session 5 mm trailing edge over 1cm length during an impact (with floating wooden branch), this didn't stop the fin being my favorite. At a few speedevents I also noticed most of the top riders (even winners) used fins with a lot of scratches. I believe it is more important to be able to relax and focus on windsurfing, instead of being anxious of scratching the fin. In my opinion carbon fins are in theory always better. In the real world G-10, weedfins or damaged carbon fin can win the day because the windsurfer is less anxious, his fin is cheaper and/or more sturdy. The psychology behind sport performance often trumps than that tiny, fragile, improvement.
Buy carbon, if you don't mind if this (more expensive) fin might go total loss. If you are unfortunate a small damage on a fin (often leading edge) ruins the flow at a critical point, I have one Sonntag GPS fin where this happened (result after impact, spin-out sensitive behaviour). In this case I have to use a bit of epoxy and sanding and hope to get a safe fin. Personally I don't do much on the fin if it still performs after impact.
If you do really mind damaging a fin during windsurfing, just don't buy carbon. Buy a fin where you feel comfortable. Also a fin with a raked tip (weedfin or something like tribal powermax, tectonics falcon f1) is a bit more safe in real world. Fins with raked tip rather slide over the object on impact than stick or dig in (catapult the windsurfer).
My newer Sonntag (carbon) fins seem to be more sturdy than the older designs, I have hit wood and went through seabed with loads of shells with only minor scratches as a result (and the fins still work fine). All carbon fins are definitly not equally sturdy, however you will only find out after impact. While G10 fins always seem to be sturdy, no matter the brand. If I have to estimate I have wrecked about 10 carbon fins, most of my favorite fins ended up wrecked on a (floating) object.
Display MoreFanatic Jag wird mittlerweile (ua auch) mit einer Finish Carbonfinne ausgestattet.
Von welchem Baujahr-JAG 94 sprichst Du Erik Loots ?
Der 94 ist ja auch der allerkleinste der Reihe und am ehesten auf Kontrolle ausgelegt. Bei kleinen Boards habe sich G10-Finnen vergleichsweise klar am längsten bewährt.
Ein JAG 110 ist da mE mit 70 cm Breite schon eine andere Liga.
Eine wirklich gute, preiswerte G10-Finne ist vermutlich schwer zu finden.
BTW: Ich hätte eine 36er Tectonics Tuttle zu verkaufen.
jag 94 2021
With a freeride or freerace board I sometimes could not use the full potential of a carbon fin design. Sometimes a carbon fin did deliver full potential in a freerace board, for me this was in a older starboard futura 93 and 101. In a fanatic Jag 94 I had the very good performance with g10 fin. In a Severne Fox 105 I could not use full potential of a carbon fin. In a fanatic ray 145 and 115 I could not use full potential of a carbon fin.
Soo I would say you can try a carbon fin and it might work great, or not. One tip would be to look for allround findesigns. Speed or downwind designs have very specific characteristics and often don't match for general use in freeride and freerace boards. Also some carbon findesigns are size sensitive (control issues if used too long or short), soo try to buy the recommended length.
Display MoreNach 16 Jahren hätte man ruhig einen neuen Thread machen können 🙃
Ohne es gefahren zu sein, mein ACX ist noch ein 2015er Badiali Design, das aktuelle AC-0 hat deutlich mehr Shape ohne Winddruck, also wird es sich nicht sehr neutral in Manövern stellen können wie ein Design das erst unter Winddruck Profil ausbildet und in Manövern flacher ist. Sprich in Manövern wird es gegebenenfalls einen größeren Ruck geben weil die Latten einen größeren Weg zurück legen müssen als ein tendenziell flaches Design.
Anspruchsvoller zu fahren sind mMn eher direkte Segel die wenig Dämpfung haben, also Segel mit viel Spannung in den Paneelen, viel Vorliekskurve, generell ein Schnitt der aus dem Race Bereich kommt (meine Hucker kommen dem sehr nah). Und das ist ja genau das Ziel des AC-0, max Leistung und Windrange, hohe Beschleunigung nach der Halse, viel Power. Dass so ein Segel dann nicht so fehlerverzeihend und soft wie ein Ezzy ist sollte dem potentiellen Käufer dann klar sein.
Ich persönlich bin ein Fan von eher direkten Segeln mit viel Shape, weshalb das aktuelle AC-0 für mich schon einen gewissen Reiz hat.
Preference (direct or soft sail) is also based on the type of spots I am using the sail. In general a direct sail (like point-7) is more fun at 'good' surfspots (nice regular or small chop + steady winds). A softer sail, like Ezzy is easier when the conditions are a bit harder. For me the type of spots makes a difference. I believe the location the sail is developed has a lot of influence (for example Lake Garda=AC0 or Ezzy=Pacific Ocean).
Most tests are performed in one certain type of conditions. If the testlocation has the opposite conditions compared to your homespot, the testwinner could be the worst choice.
If I want a new sail, I only buy 1 size (which is used most often). If it works for me at my homespot, then I buy other sizes.
I don't think a standard cardan mastfoot will work on a raceboard masttrack. But maybe someone has made a (do it yourself) solution. On my phantom boards I had a special mastfoot which fitted in the masttrack. In the Netherlands Van den berg Surfshop in Hoorn is a raceboard specialist (and can help often for small parts).
This Exocet board is not for you, however I wanted to mention it because maybe someone else (windsurfer at sea wanting to tour) might benefit knowing this Exocet thing exists. I was quite impressed when I saw the Exocet, in my opinion its something new (which is quite difficult to do in windsurfing). It is also not for me
It is maybe a bit off-topic, but for everyone wanting to do a touring session at sea (with some waves in lowwind). Exocet has something very nice the Exocet breeze vi silver. I forgot to mention this board (because I live next to a big lake and for touring on a lake the exocet would not be ideal).
My whole equipment cost as much as they want for this and it has no daggerboard(?).
Is there a workaround to attach my cardan mast base to the snake 335 from fanatic?
It is maybe a bit off-topic, but for everyone wanting to do a touring session at sea (with some waves in lowwind). Exocet has something very nice the Exocet breeze vi silver. I forgot to mention this board (because I live next to a big lake and for touring on a lake the exocet would not be ideal).
A few years I also thought about the BIC Techno. However I have been told (by someone who sailed like 1000 hours on bic techno) that the BIC techno is a class for light riders (read kids). Adults have chance of damaging the Bic techno (i dont remember exactly what fails). Soo Bic techno was no option for me.
Than I bought a 2nd hand Starboard Phantom 380 and later the Phantom 299. I would not say these boards are easy. The boards are thick and therefor wobbly. Sure these boards should be the fastest, but you need the right raceboard sail, right trim, change trim (mastfoot and downhaul during sailing) ==> it can become quite
demanding to ride. I sold these boards because they are terrible with weedfins (and there is a lot of weed on the places I like to tour).
I have looked into a starboard phantom free (less thick) and it looked like a good compromise, however hard to find.
Than the windsurfer LT with softdeck, I have seen a lot of them. Yes you dont need a big sail. It looks fun, you can tour, barefoot with softdeck, a light small sail. Sure the full raceboard + big sail (like sb Phantom) is a few km/h faster (especially upwind). But if you are going to tour at some places the windsurfer LT is easier and I dont think it feels much slower.
Than there is the Kona windsurf board. Which is also good touringboard with softdeck. Should be a bit better (faster) once gliding. Kona has (like the windsurfer LT) a group of fans.
A big starboard Go (other brands have similar boards), has also softdeck and daggerboard only wider (more stable, less speed in low wind), I have toured with this type of board and its fun because a big wide softdeck board is easy to sit on (and enjoy the view), while on a raceboard (with many straps and big daggerboard and thick shape) it is more challenging to enjoy sitting relaxed on the board.
A RSX board is also interesting, many of them around and prices are good. Also a daggerboard, wide stable design. Not the fastest in lightwind. No softdeck, but good enough for touring.
Personally i would choose a softdeck board next time. Windsurfer lt, kona or starboard go (long big version) next time for fun touring. Windsurfer LT has a growing community here, soo that would be my favorite right now. Lots of windsurfer LT riders sold their (old) raceboard and dont regret, their pure racing days are over (its more about fun touring).
At low speed (up to medium speed) the bottom of my board pushes almost everything out of the water. However at higher speed the fin (vertical lift/flex), sail and airflow around the nose becomes more important than bottom of the board to make the board fly above the water. The looser the board becomes the more difference weight will make, in the end (ultimate efficiency) the sail sort of carries the riders weight and the fin (and a bit lift from the nose) has to carry the boards weight. In this end scenario (highest gear/speed of the board) weight is noticeable to me, because with a heavier board I need a bit more vertical lift from the fin (which means more drag). For a fin it is quite a task to lift a (few) extra kilogram upwards.
However if efficiency is not important (when there is plenty of wind) AND control is desired a heavier board makes the ride smoother (less bouncy). A heavier, less bouncy, board is sometimes better/faster once planning in difficult highwind conditions.
Display MoreDer SLW wird die letzten Jahre nur noch in einer Bauart gebaut, d.h. man hat nicht mehr den Luxus eines leichten Brettes. Ein Brett in der Größe mit dem Volumen inkl. Foilbox (welche weder SLW oder US vor Jahren hatten) sind in haltbarer Bauweise mMn derzeit nicht sinnvoll zu bauen, aber jedem seine Meinung.
Schlechtmachen, keine Sorge, habe ich nicht so verstanden und kann auch keiner.
Denn ihr kennt das Board nicht, seid es nicht im Vergleich gefahren.
Bin es am Spot gefahren, der von SLW dominiert wird und so mancher hat doof geglotzt und wollte wissen was das für ein Board ist was gefahren ist und sein „leichter“ SLW nicht, weil es gibt ja nichts was sonst fahren könnte bei dem Wind.
Kann es aber nicht so stehen lassen mit dem Gewicht, aber das ist hier im Forum ja nicht neu, ihr habt sicher SLW & Formula Bretter in 6.5kg.
F-Type wurde 2005&2006 gebaut.
Unfassbares Spaßbrett, was wir immer noch haben und fahren.
Standposition ist perfekt!
Muss Keiner verstehen der es nicht gefahren ist, den kann ich nicht abgeben.
Die Entscheidung zwischen SLW und dem Mojo war und ist eine extrem enge Kiste.
Er macht genau das was er soll, das Konzept funktioniert hervorragend.
Ich hätte es behalten und parallel mit SLW gefahren, aber der F-Type bleibt.
Und mehr Platz habe ich nicht.
So, will den Thread nicht Off-Topic kapern, wer Interesse hat mag mich gerne direkt Konzaktieren, beende weitere Erklärungen.
I ride sometimes (once in a few years) my brothers Starboard F-Type. It is good fun, but requires quite a long fin and deep water. My brother also has its pre assessor Starboard Freeformula which is longer and a bit less wide. Lately the freeformula is used more often, the reason is it can be used with shorter (less demanding) fins (and weedfins), the freeformula is even easier and still fast (my brother is going 30kts with the 168). I also used a JP SLW once, quite a good board, I would say it is between the Starboard f-type and Starboard Freeformula.
I was a bit worried when one of the biggest windsurfshops in the Netherlands just stopped (nobody offered to continue this shop) last year. After reading this interesting topic and many experiences I expect windsurfing will survive. I hope to be able to windsurf the next 40yrs or so, one requirement to do this is equipment being available for the next decades. Volume lowers costs, soo more rental station windsurfers = better in my opinion. Soo if rental business works and grows (for next generations) ==> it will be good for the industry and buying consumers.
Too solve spinouts with trim I try too let the board run less free (a bit deeper in the water). To compensate for a spinouts its better to decrease finpressure (by mastfoot forward and/or smaller sail). The trim to let a board run less free is somewhat dependend on gear and style, overal less downhaul and lower boom works if you can get up to normal speed. However lower downhaul increases finpressure (and is therefor often contraproductive). Increasing downhaul can be contraproductive too (because board gets too loose).
Best solution is a controllable longer weedfin design in my opinion when you meet the 3 criteria: weedfin+ many spin outs+chop. Using trim to solve spin-outs is interesting when only a few spin-outs (once per 10~20 reaches).
When the fin is too short, for example weedfin in deepwater + higher chop, it never was an excellent ride for me. When fin is too short the board has too run sticky on the water (reduce ventilation /spinouts). Some boards work well in this sticky mode (waveboards, some freeride and a few slalomboards). However in sticky mode:
- the chance of nosediving increases,
-it remains a bit sensitive to spin-out,
-every bit of chop hits the board hard (=less comfort),
-when wind increases you will be overpowered sooner with spin-outs
-is slower on all courses
One off the problems with weedfins is they have to be shorter. In good (bigger) chop the weedfin ventilates (spin-out) simply because the weedfin is too short (most of the weedfin is in the air between chop, that is when ventilation/spinout start). I am trying to tackle this problem for a while now.
A lot of weedfins are perfect and very robust in shallow weed spots. However when water gets deeper (and chop higher) ==> more weedfins designs are often a bit short and not very useable anymore.
The good news is there are weedfin designs with more lenght recommended for a 73cm wide board (which mean more normal behaviour is deepwater/high chop). That is why I like my Sonntag Sl-weed and tribal weedspeed, these weedfins are a bit longer. I also tested Black project Kestrell (26cm) which was even 2cm longer than recommended and this was very sensitive. Also I bought Finish/Hurricane weedfins which where 29-32cm recommended and this was also more sensitive.
The JP superride 132 is 73cm wide and has a 42cm standard fin (not suitable for weed). Sonntag Sl-weed recommends 32-34cm for this size. Under my 73cm board I use my Sl-weed 31cm for nice small chop water (fin rarely is out of the water). In high chop I use my 34cm Sonntag Sl-weed. In even higher chop water I would recommend the Tribal Weedspeed 37cm (which is again 3cm longer). In absolute chaos a 39cm tribal weedspeed. The tribal is g10 and can be used longer without getting the board overpowered quickly. I would not recommend sailing the sonntag/hurricane/finish fins longer than recommended on their website, these are carbon and therefor always have to be used shorter than for example the Tribal weedspeed.
For sure rental concepts can be much more interesting. Just think about it.
My ideal (future) rental station would be (just now thinking about it):
-a trailer based service in my region.
-Use tech to deliver service through a good website with daily updates about wind & weather
-Use tech to let know where the rental trailer is. Where the wind and conditions is best==> the trailer will be;
-Use tech on the website as a customer you can enter favorite settings/masts and rating after the surfsession. With this 'feedback' everyone and the service can improve;
-in the trailer plenty of gear (for the given wind prediction) is loaded;
-carbon booms and 100% rdm masts
-reliable mastfoot and extender (chinook)
-freeride/-race sails like Loft Oxygen of Switchblade. Or Neilpryde speedster/V8
-the trailer has many of the same brand/type of sails. This was I can get used to one type (and prevent each session will be trail&error)
-Boards with tuttlebox, I would like to use one of my own fins probably.
-I rather have allround boards like starboard carve, because allround boards are quite easy to find 'perfect' fins that work
-on highwind days the trailer is loaded with freewave toys.
-the trailer won't leave if I have troubles. In other words there will be a rescue if something is wrong. -Maybe everyone with GPS to let see where they hang around (and use tech to show stats like distance and speed).
A windsurfer LT rental trailer would also be big fun on light but sunny days. I even would go there with my current quiver a few times a year, I like longboards in low up to medium wind, cruise around, stop somewhere beautifull ==> enjoy nature and float around. I sold my longboard in 2023 because of logistics and it worked bad with weedfin. However recently I saw windsurfer LT flying around at one of the local spots and it looked soo much fun.
And probably there are even better idea's.
In your first post you speak about the JP Xcite as your current ride. The most logical (and best value for money) upgrade would be a JP Superride 113. This is a nice shape, more modern, fun. And they are not very expensive if you look at older models, for example:
https://www.vanbellen.nl/p/jp-…3auT1yEAQYBCABEgKbZvD_BwE
There are even a bit better/newer shape upgrades for sale (better construction especially), however these cost more. I have the slalom boards from Tribal (which turned out a good for me), given this experience I would dare to recommend the Tribal Libero if a higher price is acceptable for you. I saw the Tribal Libero in real and it will be comfy, fast and strong built. You can order all tribal libero sizes with a tuttlebox, which is a big plus for me (given my current fins). The biggest difference between JP and Tribal would be board construction, JP is epoxy sandwhich (cheaper) and tribal is fullcarbon with glass reinforcements. Good fullcarbon boards are lighter, stronger and more durable.. Most freeride boards are glass and/or wood, which will be less good compared to good carbon boards. A glass/wood board will deform easier in front of the finbox (giving negative shape over time and this will make the board ride less fun).
At my homespot we have a surfclub with rental windsurfgear. The rental prices are very fair (much lower than I am used too), also surflessons are not very expensive. A lot of the active windsurfers use the rental fleet, so there is demand for this concept for sure. I did not see this concept at many other places in the Netherlands. I heard on the beach:
-Not everyone can store windsurfgear at home, houses/gardens become smaller.
-Not everyone has tools/skills/time to maintain/repair windsurfstuff or wants too
-Not everyone has transport for windsurfing gear, lots of tiny cars.
-Not everyone enjoys the buy and sell game of 2nd hand gear.
-Some work nearby the surfspot and its easy to go from work and pull downhaul&attach boom and just go
-Some say it is better for our world to use rental gear (better use of materials and resources)
The world changes, pure windsurfers (many on this forum I believe) might decrease. Occasional windsurfers demand increases. I am sure the will always remain a demand for windsurfing, but different. A generation which want something like something prepared out of dad's surftrailer? I am not sure private ownership all windsurf gear is the way forward for everyone. Smart rental concepts might be the future...
-bullitproof good gear ideal for heavy use, and/or
-rental fleet in trailers/truck which will drive to the best spot and lets there customers know where too go
Its not for me, I am pure windsurfer, I like the surfshop. But generations, demand and wishes change. Just like everything. Maybe less shops in future and more possibility for people (wanting to work in windsurf biz) on the beach (service prepare/repair/etc.). I see also many wing/kite related businesses with the trailer and rental kit concept here (Almere-Muiderberg)
I recognize this with my last iSonic (2022) it was always a matter of perfection and speed to make it work. In the end I didnt tack when it was cold or anything else less ideal, this (less tacking) didnt help my tacking... On my current boards it is easier to tack, these have a longer nose and normal volume in the nose (while still fast as a slalomboard). My tacking suddenly improved 90%. Mistakes or difficult chop are not a big problem anymore. Even without planning I tack the 73 and 83cm wide, it is not hard, without being a freestyler.
The Gunsails Bow price might be good if the sail is not used much. A lot of sails last about 100 sessions. Monofilm lasts about 300 hours high UV radiation. Soo if the sail has been used rarely in the sun you will have many years fun. While a 1 year old sail which had already 250 hours in the sun might break within a year.
A old, rarely used sail is often a sweet deal. While a fairly new sail, used a lot in the sun, often has not a long lifespan left.
For a few years I jumped ftom 8.5 too 6.8 (both cammed sails). Non cammed sails feel often a bit bigger, I had a 5.8 non cam and its about the same windrange than a 6.3 with cams.
Is the Select fin forward on the base like this Tribal Kruse fin????
