TheVirus Foil

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  • Lieber Dr. Spin Out,

    Danke für die Nachfrage. Ich habe nur 5 Patente. Wir bieten Structural Glass, Carbon, Kevlar. Unser Platzierungsprozess ist wahrscheinlich anders als Ihr Prozess. Wir haben uns nie beschwert, dass Fliegenflossen versagen. Seit Oktober 2017 haben wir nur 2 Kunden, die sich öffentlich über die Leistung im Internet beschweren. Wir haben insgesamt 3 Retouren für 100% das geld zuruk gekomen wegen falscher Auswahl. Ich denke, das ist ein gutes Ergebnis. Wir verkaufen ungefähr 60% des Produktes aus Carbon.


    Dr. Zak.

  • Dear Doctors, Dr. Zak, dr. Spin out, Dr. bfl, etc. etc.

    My name is Ray Sauder, aka RazeR69, from Canada. My friends call me Dr. Dolittle sometimes, ha ha.

    Still, as far as i know, i have made the most successful foil assisted windsurf fin with the help of dr. Lunin's wing. I have achieved early planing at 6 knots with a 7.3 sail. My board is on the tail, me hiked over the water in a normal sailing position. Everything performs beautifully on a tested 15 knots with zero spin-outs.

    Now I have not proved this to anybody else except 7 or 8 kiters (former windsurfers) who were with me in Cuba, watched me sail, watched over my fin, helped me test my wind meter, etc. And otherwise there is general disbelief! Fair enough! In 2 weeks the conservation area where I want windsurf open and hopefully I want to be able to take some videos of my buddies, get GPS speeds, local wind read-outs, etc.

    While I got very lucky with my first attempt, I do not believe it is yet the best possible. Hopefully I can get FRP to help me with another attempt, making 4 or 5 changes. If you have not read my results so far, read them here:…tails#UCBIzX2477Xqj3d5.97

  • Hi RazeR69,

    I admire your humor. I am originally from USSR and I used to work with engineers from DDR and BDR. What I liked the most about German engineering culture is the respect to education. It is considered to be polite in Germany to address a person by a title. For example, if you have an equivalent of American Ph.D. you will be most likely addressed by "Dr" in Germany. I have seen similar custom in China and Iran. I agree with you that most of the North American population would make a joke about signing your letter with "Dr." This is one of the reasons I like this German forum. The other reason to like this German forum is because it has higher level of understanding of the engineering specifics in comparison to, for example, boards UK forum. You can see it by compare the fly-fin that Wolfgang built on this forum to all the fly-fin prototypes published on the UK forum.

    I have noticed your 40+ recent comments on the UK forum. I have also viewed your 30+ emails to frpgear. My understanding is that you are asking frpgear to build fly-fins for you and for your friends per your specification for free in exchange for you publishing good reviews. In order to convince frpgear to accept your offer you criticize frpgear design.

    You are not alone in the effort to get free fly-fins. We are receiving such of offers often enough. Most of our prospective partners understand our current situation - we are focusing more on engineering and less on monetizing. But some people get angry on us for declining free product shipment. You can find those partners on forum, like FightingFools on the UK and other forums who never used fly-fins. They typically say that we have to give fly-fins to an experienced sailor referring to themselves, despite we have already given a number of fins for free to other experienced sailors.

    In your particular situation my suggestion is to get a correct fly-fin for your board. We have been advertising 2017 (currently discontinued) model for older long and narrow boards. Your board is too wide for our old 2017 fly-fin. Our-700 model is more like the one you made out of our 2017. But our April 2018 model performs much better on wide boards compare to -700 model:

    To comment on your question for a custom fly-fin: Yes, we make custom fly-fins.

    To comment on your concern about believing in your test results: Yes, we are having a similar problem. Despite over 30 videos posted on YouTube many forum posters remain skeptical.


    Dr. Zak

  • Thank you Dr. Zak. Here, some people are also impressed with formal education. Others are impressed with intelligence. These things do not always come together.

    You misunderstand me on several counts. I am not asking for free fins for my friends. I am quite sure they will purchase fins when they see mine in action. Only problem is, FRP does not make a fin I can recommend.

    I made my composite fin solely because FRP had no reasonable model to offer me. I was assured that models 2018 to 2020 were much better and would work for me. But I didn't believe it. And now of course we both know I was right. Cesar Ramon from Malaysia tested the 2019 model and "Deska" from Hatteras tested the 2020 model and they both rated them useless. I selected a fin of reasonable length, rake, area, stiffness, etc. to actually perform like a fin should and added the FRP wing to the bottom of it. With great success!

    Now the 2017-700 model is a quick response to my success with a longer fin but sadly it is deficient, in my humble opinion, in 4 or 5 details that I have found important for a fly-fin to work. Since you've read all my emails to FRP you know the changes I think are important.

    I cannot use your advise to "get a correct fly-fin for your board" because FRP's advise to me, to Cesar Ramon, to Deska, has been just wrong. I have spent a lot of time thinking and testing this idea. I am freely sharing my information and insights to the entire world; I am not looking to make any money, just to increase my own windsurfing enjoyment.

    FRP started this whole foil-assist evolution up again. They have ingenuity, creative ability,

    manufacturing expertise, material expertise, flexibility; possibly the only company on the planet able to evolve a new type of fin this quickly. And I am offering to help.

  • Hi RazeR69,

    In educated world Doctors provide references when making claims. For example, when I did my Doctor's dissertation in math modeling I had to get publications in magazines where my publications are approved by several independent scientists. Presentations on scientific conferences and Patents work too. For example one of my earlier Euro Patents SU19884616281 19881109 can be found and checked. The underlying idea of an evidence is to prevent self proclaimed (fake) but ambitious scientists to gain power. When we, experienced and educated engineers, make a claim we intend to support it with evidence in order to make it possible for others to replicate our results. For example, frpgear provides videos, wind conditions, sailor weight and experience, details about equipment used. You can either agree on frpgear results or replicate the same conditions in order to verify. You cannot oppose an engineering test result by just talking about it based on your own thoughts. The actual experiment has priority over theories. Your claim that frpger fly-fin "sucks and useless" remains an allegation to be proven. The same with your claim that you get on planing at 3 m/s wind speed under 6 m^2 sail. My point here is that somebody needs to be able to verify your claim to make it a fact. The best way to get somebody to verify what you discovered is to post some videos of you doing actual windsurfing and show differences between frpgear and other fins. Like you can see on frpgear youtube videos side by side. Because the videos are not enough you should give your fins to others to try and compare. For example, we have delivered many fly-fins and we have some negative comments as we can see. But these negative comments are more emotional and without actual video evidence to support. Is it still a problem today to take a phone video? I would love to see your videos from Cuba. For example you have 50 posts on several forums about your experience + 30 emails to frpgear. It seems you put much effort to talk about it and apparently no effort to show any video of the problem. Frankly, I was unable to find any picture or a video of you doing any windsurfing considering you claim to be the one with the experience. The same question I have to your partners like Cesar Ramon. Cesar Ramon has a Facebook page that has been just created for criticizing frpgear 2019 model, again without any videos of the problem. The only picture I see from Cesar Ramon is frpgear model 2019 packed for shipping and I can see it has been shipped immediately after he received it. He spent more time for critics of frpgear model 2019 compare to time of trying it on water. And, no any pictures or videos of model 2019 with Cesar Ramon on water or on a beach or anywhere with 2019 model and Cesar Ramon together. And, why do you think I shipped Model 2018 to Taiwan, while payment from Cesar Ramon came from Spain? Why do you think Cesar Ramon picked the wrong model for his board (just like you) while I suggested to get a correct model? The devil is in the details as they say. And, who is Deska from Hatteras? I actually live and windsurf in the area for 20 years and I have never met a windsurfer Deska from Hatteras. Is he the one from this Drama video:

    We, at frpgear, have now 5 different boards. When we get new test results we publish videos. You can find two the most recent videos of -700 and April models on Formula like board and 2019 Model on our new design Fly-Board. Real videos of real windsurfers on the equipment that we can describe in fine details so you can verify the results. BTW, you could just have bought our -700 model for 50% discount instead of making your own. But, our April model works better on Formula compare to -700. If you asked me when bought a lower cost and outdated model I would suggest get April 2018 for your board instead. I actually have 2018 April test model available with Tuttle box and M6 for 50% discount and free shipping.

    There is always a better way to windsurf.

    Mit freundlichen Grüßen

    Dr. Zak.

  • I have freely admitted my lack of proof and my expected remedy:


    Now I have not proved this to anybody else except 7 or 8 kiters (former windsurfers) who were with me in Cuba, watched me sail, watched over my fin, helped me test my wind meter, etc. And otherwise there is general disbelief! Fair enough! In 2 weeks the conservation area where I want windsurf open and hopefully I want to be able to take some videos of my buddies, get GPS speeds, local wind read-outs, etc.

    That does not mean I should waste more money on a design my intelligence and my testing tell me is still flawed. With exchange and sales taxes I paid $450 CAD for a useless fly-fin, three times more than I have ever paid for a fin. Yes FRP is very good about refunding money, but that doesn't get back the shipping and taxes. And more importantly, it doesn't give me a workable early planing fin which is now possible!

    Dr. Zak, you and Dr. Lunin manufacture and sell fly-fins. You have every right to praise every single model as perfect. But I'm a customer who paid money for your product, and I have the right to praise or criticize that product as I see fit. When you sell a fin that works as well as I now know is possible, I for sure will praise that product as much as I have criticized the early models.

  • Dr. Zak, you and Dr. Lunin manufacture and sell fly-fins.

    But more importantly:

    We: Dr. Zak and Dr. Lunin have invented Fly-Fin and made it work.

    As you may have already researched there have been repeated attempts for 40 years to make a usable Fly-Fin. FRPGear has finally got it right. Only RazeR69 is complaining, but still using our Fly-Fin invention. Our Fly-Fin is probably so good - even when someone picks a wrong size like Raze69 did you can still make it work without being an educated Ph.D.

    Here are more facts:

    RazeR69 payed with Paypal:

    Hydrofoil fin S-Glass Fin, Tuttle Box. 1/4-20 $290.00 USD + Shipping $24.50 USD

    FRPGEAR paid: PayPal Fee-$14.14 USD

    FRPGear ended up with 290-14.14=$275.6US. Subtract taxes, materials and labor cost. It means Dr. Lunin and I do not do this for money.

    We ship it with declared value of $200 for shipping cost reduction or with no declared value when customers with high import tax ask. So it should not be high custom cost on import.

    Yes, you will need to pay your own shipping cost of $24.50 if you want to ship it back for a complete refund. From your recent post I see that paying for the return shipping was an important issue for you. From your other posts I see that you have decided to keep this low cost model in order to get 50% discount for a significantly more expensive model that would be a correct fly-fin for your board. In other words, instead of buying $900 fly-fin you purchased $290 fly-fin in order to become eligible for 50% discount on $900 fly-fin. In result, you would pay as low as $290+$450= $740 total for two: $290 + $900 fly-fins instead of paying $900 for only one fly-fin. Dr. Lunin has already discussed these options with you after you have been trying to cancel you $290 order with PayPal when you found the same but lower price Fly-Fin available on eBay for $288. eBay does not provide benefits on the second purchase.

    We do not compare Fly-Fin cost to a regular fin cost. We compare Fly-Fin cost for light wind planing to the cost of other options for light wind planing. For example, I have purchased a used 100L AHD and new NP racing sail 5m for $450 total. With frpgear 2018-Winglets I (80kg) get on planing at 9 knotes compare to 13 knots wind with a regular fin. How much money do you think I need to get on planing at 9 knots wind without fly-fin?

    When you refer to your own fly-fin I am getting confused because you are showing pictures of frpgear fly-fin. Yes, you added more fin area and adjusted setting angles. But it remains frpgear fly-fin. As they like to say today: "If it looks like, works like, used like, made like, promoted as, purchased from, made out of frpgear fly-fin it is frpgear fly-fin."

    Nicht war?

    Dr. Lunin

    P.S. Sollen wir hier deutsch sprechen?

  • Whatever. I have long since learned that with FRP the customer is always wrong.


    You and Cesar have invited word public to discuss frpgear fly-fins on your FaceBook pages. In the same time, you and Cesar blocked frpgear from posting on on your FaceBook pages.

    And, we, at frpgear, like to think about our customers more like about out partners helping us to make the sport of windsurfing better.

    Dr. Zak.

  • Funktioniert das überhaupt?

    In den Videos sehe ich nur Surfer die so mehr oder weniger im gleiten sind.

    Und das bei Bedingungen die dem Geräuschpegel zu urteilen locker reichen um

    komplett frei zu gleiten und speed zu machen.

    Fliegen seh ich da jedenfalls keinen.



  • ..........und was zeigt jetzt das Video :confangry:

    Ich erkenne nur zwei Personen, die etwas Hin-und Hergurgeln.:thumbdown:

    Aaah, jetzt verstehe ich es, sind wohl Anfänger:bonk::D

    So haben wir alle mal das Windsurfen erlernt.

    Oder waren wir bessere Anfänger :)

  • Einige Anmerkungen zum Fly-Fins-Konzept

    Ich denke, man sollte das Thema rein sachlich betrachten und die Physik heranziehen, um zu sehen, wie es funktioniert und was die Unterschiede zum Windsurfen und reinem Foilen sind. Dann kann jeder für sich entscheiden, ob es für ihn Sinn macht.

    Die Vermarktung von Fly Fins wirkt für mich sehr unprofessionell, da nicht verständlich erklärt wird, wie es funktioniert und die Beispielvideos grottenschlecht sind. Egal wie viele.

    Wieso kann man sich nicht einen See mit glatter Oberfläche suchen, wenig Wind, 2 Surfer mit gleichem Equipment, gleicher Erfahrung mit und ohne Fly Fin und eindeutig zeigen, der eine gleitet und der andere nicht bzw. der eine ist schneller als der andere?

    Dann würde man es auch glauben.

    Besser wäre noch, ein Windsurfmagazin würde das unabhängig testen und über die Vor- und Nachteile berichten.

    Beim Hydrofoilen für Windsurfen oder Kiten ist das täglich an nahezu jedem Spot eindeutig sichtbar.

    Für das Hydrofoilen braucht man keine breiten Bretter oder 9 m² Segel. Es gibt genug kleine Foil- Boards, die mit 4,7 m² Segel eindrucksvoll foilen.

    Die Entwicklung zu den breiten Boards und grossen Segeln beim Hydrofoiling findet hauptsächlich für Slalom Racing Wettbewerbe statt.

    Das ist es nichts für den Normalsurfer, sowas kann er gar nicht fahren.

    Schließlich kann man das Fly-Fin-Konzept nicht mit dem Hydrofoilen mit Mast vergleichen. Hydrofoiling ist eine ganz andere Dimension, bei der man frei von den Wellen, nahezu geräuschlos über dem Wasser fliegt. Es ist identisch zu einem Flugzeug im Horizontalflug.

    Das Fly-Fin Konzept ist immer noch Gleiten mit Brettkontakt zum Wasser und den Wellen, nur mit geringerem Widerstand.

    Zur Erklärung, wie das Fly-Fin-Konzept funktioniert, hier zum downloaden.